Prime Times and pickup question

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Prime Times and pickup question

Postby ChrisClark on Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:56 pm

This is one of the first Prime Times. All later ones had tremolos.
This is an Artist model with checkboard binding, diamond inlays, and ebony board.
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ChrisClark
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Photo Shoot with Barb Leslie

Postby ChrisClark on Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:59 pm

Hey! This is me at a photo Shoot with Barb Leslie in Burlington. circa 1984 Prime Time with Kahler.
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Prime Time PT5 # 529

Postby BrentDomann on Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:03 pm

Here are some photos of my PrimeTime, SN PT5-529. My grandfather bought it used (I think) in 1986 in Lebanon, NH at Blue Mountain Guitar for $650, including an Acoustic B120 Head and a 1X15" cab (don't ask me why they sold a bass amp with a guitar). I still have the receipt.
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Don't do anything I wouldn't do.
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RE: Prime Time PT5 # 529

Postby ChrisClark on Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:04 pm

Brent,
Thanks for the post!
I would say that your grandfather [Your Rock'n Grandfather!] bought this NEW in 86.
It looks 100% original except for the straplocks.
Chris
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Prime Time PT5 # 529

Postby BrentDomann on Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:05 pm

The straplocks are just those plastic Dunlop ones that tighten around regular strap buttons. As far as the rest of the guitar, it is all-original except for the pickup selector switch, which was replaced in 1998 with a Gibson switch (the old one was totally shot).

Was $650 including an amp about what these went for in 1986? I have some Guitar Player magazines from the 80s, and one of them contains a review of PrimeTime Artists. It lists them as starting at $948.00. Were they selling for that much less in stores? And even if they did, I have to say that this feels like a lot more guitar than some fraction of $650. It's truly a beast!

Also, what do the switches do? The only one I know is the pickup selector. The second switch sounds like either a coil tap or a phase switch. The third sounds like some sort of "blow" switch...it activates both pickups but has a fuller sound than having the selector in the middle position. The knobs are Volume Volume Tone, I think.

If anyone is interested, I can try to photograph or scan those reviews and post them here. Those magazines are also full of ads. If they'll be useful, just let me know and I'll post whatever I can get my hands on.
Brent
Don't do anything I wouldn't do.
BrentDomann
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Prime Time PT5 # 529

Postby ChrisClark on Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:07 pm

Back in the day guitars were cheap! I bought a 69 Les Paul Custom for $250! I wish I still had that one. The music stores were buying the guitars wholesale [50% off] and the $948 was the retail price.
The Prime Time Review you're referring to may be a press release from Time. I wrote alot of them and the mags would publish these verbatim.
The black mini switch is a parallel/series switch. In the up position it creates one giant pickup with four coils.[series connection]
The white switch is a phase switch. It turns both pickups on and out of phase in the up position.
Anything you've got to share is cool.
Thanks, Chris
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Postby BrentDomann on Mon May 14, 2007 11:30 am

Chris,

Long time no post! :D What kind of pickups were stock in those Prime Times?
Don't do anything I wouldn't do.
BrentDomann
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Location: Lansing, MI

Postby ChrisClark on Sun May 27, 2007 4:26 pm

NOTE: This post is now in the 'How they were made' topic.
Additional info has been added. Chris
Click here for the new post.

Hi Brent,
Your pickups started out as Schaller high output. [Two in One] Model #212 I googled and found these.
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Surprisingly, Schaller is still making the same pickups after 25 years! The Schaller website.

At Time, we completely disassembled and changed them as follows:

1. Changed the magnets.
2. Potted the coils in our homemade vacuum chamber. They are potted with a poly type two-part lacquer.
3. Added maple strips to each side of the bobbins and clamped these as they dried/cured. This presses all the wire as close to the pole pieces as possible and adds rigidity to the coils. ie. Our trademark 'Pressurewound' pickup.
We started the patent process for this and the vacuum potting technique, but ran out of money. :cry: That's why we used a trademark.
4. Added copper shielding tape around the bobbin. Soldered this closed and added a ground wire to this shield.
5. Retapped the pole pieces for our own adjustable screws.
6. Drilled thru the bobbins to add 4-40 screws that go all the way thru the pickup and attach to the base plate.
7. Added/soldered a tab on the baseplate for the two pickup screws on the top. Our pickup had three adjustment screws not two. [You can tilt them to match the string angle.]
8. Wired with 4-conductor shielded cable to interface with the switching.

All this work made for a really solid/tight pickup.

The potting process could melt the bobbins, so the earlier pickups were covered. Later, we worked at limiting the time spent in the lacquer.
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Other guitars of this period used Schaller Golden 50's and S6 single coils. They were also modified. They kept their alnico magnets. The S6's were usually too HOT, so we removed wire from them according to their position. ie. neck, middle, &bridge.
Some of the Vee's had monster pickups with 3 [count'em] THREE ceramic magnets. Giant Round Head Hex screws for the pole pieces. During tremolo dive-bombs the strings would totally get sucked onto the pickup. You'd hear this 'WHAK' and then silence... 'If Less is More, Than More is really MORE!' Complete Spinal Tap silliness.
TomP? Do you agree?

The earliest pickups were from Schaller, but we stripped off the wire and wound the bobbins with our own wire. This wire was thinner than 'normal' pickup wire [I forget the gauge]. This gave more high end & sensitive output. We wound them by hand on a drill press! You would sit there for hours hand feeding the wire and hoping that it didn't break!

At this time I built a coil winding machine that ran on stepper motors controlled by an Atari 800. I never got this completely working, but it started me on my current career path.

You will see a few guitars with different pickups. Around 1980, we were using Mighty-Mite parts before switching back to Schaller. MightyMite Pickups
There's also some DiMarzio equipped guitars out there.
The last guitars built had Stuart Duncan pickups with Floyd Rose whammies.

Interesting note: Alan Stack found the vacuum pump at a garage sale. It was part of an undertaker's embalming Toolkit complete with hoses, pump, bottles for formaldehyde and removed blood. Plus gruesome looking tools for preparing the cadaver!

ROCK ON!
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Re: Prime Time

Postby BrentDomann on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:20 pm

During tremolo dive-bombs the strings would totally get sucked onto the pickup. You'd hear this 'WHAK' and then silence... 'If Less is More, Than More is really MORE!' Complete Spinal Tap silliness.


It's been months since I was active on this board, but I re-read this page, and this quote is something to consider. Even my PrimeTime pickups do this. It's quite amazing, too, to see flopping strings just go "blap" down to the fretboard and pickups. Hehe, more really is really more! Really!
Don't do anything I wouldn't do.
BrentDomann
Time Guitar Owner
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:48 pm
Location: Lansing, MI

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